Fog of War, Chess simulation: Will you know the outcome in limited info situation?
Standard
21
Ṁ1532
resolved Sep 27
ResolvedN/A
42%
Death
25%
Black wins
23%
White wins
10%
Draw

Two players are playing normal game of chess on this board. You cannot interfere/affect what they are doing. (Their names are not revealed, they are not Manifold users).

Setting:

You are caught in a middle of a war conflict. Neither side reports the true situation, mobile services are cut off, independent reporters cannot reach the location, you can only trust what you see.

You play as a Witness.

At the start of the game you are on a random free square of the board.

You can see your square and the 8 squares around it with pieces on them, but you never see the locations of kings (The military command keeps its location secret).

After each move (when both white and black moved) you see the situation and have an opportunity to move (king's move pattern) or to stay.

You can move to an occupied square, but if the piece on your current square gets captured you become a civilian casualty, this market resolves to Death.

If you survive up to the end of the match, the market resolves to the chess match result.

The Witness's move is made through the most upvoted comment.

New gamestates are also communicated through the comment section.

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Creator needed to continue and account deleted.
N/A may be best action. @mods

  1. You moved to d6, and during 11th move you saw no movement.

Despite white move 9 being as predicted no action on move 10 was not expected, the 2 common continuation moves being Bxf6 and Nxc6 didn't happen. The next most likely appeared to be keep the moves to white move 9 but change black move 9 to the next most common Be7 but that hasn't happened. So the 3rd most common black move 9 ... h6 is now looking like the best guess:

1 e4 (likely but could be move 2) ... 1 c5
2 Nf3 (likely but could be move 1) ... 2 Nf6
3. d4 ... 3 cxd4
4 Nxd4 ... 4 Nf6
5 Nc3 likely to protect e4 but little info on this ... 5 d6
6 Bg5 is played, more likely move 6 than 7. ... 6 e6
7 Qd2 is common continuation but no direct obs ... 7 a6 is common continuation but no direct obs
8 O-O-O is common continuation but no direct obs ... 8 Bd7 [Edited to] Seen, move 8 more likely than 9 or 10
9 f4 (correctly predicted) ,,, 9 h6 is 3rd most common continuation but fits better for move 10 no action and lack of B on e7. No direct obs
10 Bh4 is common continuation but no idea...10 g5 is common continuation but no idea
11. fxg5 is common continuation but no idea ... 11 hxg5??

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=1625399&move=11&moves=e4.c5.Nf3.Nc6.d4.cxd4.Nxd4.Nf6.Nc3.d6.Bg5.e6.Qd2.a6.O-O-O.Bd7.f4.h6.Bh4.g5&nodes=21720.32033.32034.32035.32036.32037.32038.32039.32040.32041.32042.1483127.1624683.1624684.1624685.1624686.1624687.1624688.1624689.1625399

Suggestions for search are still: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 d6 6 Bg5 e6
or 1. e4 c5   2. Nf3 Nc6   3. d4 cxd4   4. Nxd4 Nf6   5. Nc3 d6   6. Bg5 e6   7. Qd2 a6   8. O-O-O Bd7   9. f4

The moves listed suggest moving to e5 to see f4 square which might move away if 11 fxg5 occurs. This also observes f6 if case 10 Bxf6 is played which is 2nd most common 10th white move in this line.

Propose move to e5
Not seeing any sensible alternative.

@KongoLandwalker
1 week, 1 like + me, no alternatives proposed

  1. Movement to e5. No action happened.

@traders

Despite white move 9 being as predicted no action on move 10 was not expected the 2 common continuation moves being Bxf6 and Nxc6 didn't happen. We can however keep the moves to white move 9 but change black move 9 to the next most common Be7and have

1 e4 (likely but could be move 2) ... 1 c5
2 Nf3 (likely but could be move 1) ... 2 Nf6
3. d4 ... 3 cxd4
4 Nxd4 ... 4 Nf6
5 Nc3 likely to protect e4 but little info on this ... 5 d6
6 Bg5 is played, more likely move 6 than 7. ... 6 e6
7 Qd2 is common continuation but no direct obs ... 7 a6 is common continuation but no direct obs
8 O-O-O is common continuation but no direct obs ... 8 Bd7 is common continuation but no direct obs
9 f4 (correctly predicted) ,,, 9 Be7 is 2nd most common continuation but fits better for move 10 no action. No direct obs
10 Be2 is common continuation but no idea...10 Qc7 is common continuation but no idea
 https://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=165919&move=10.5&moves=e4.c5.Nf3.Nc6.d4.cxd4.Nxd4.Nf6.Nc3.d6.Bg5.e6.Qd2.a6.O-O-O.Bd7.f4.Be7.Be2&nodes=21720.32033.32034.32035.32036.32037.32038.32039.32040.32041.32042.1483127.1624683.1624684.1624685.1624686.1624687.1682193.165919

Suggestions for search are still: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 d6 6 Bg5 e6
or 1. e4 c5   2. Nf3 Nc6   3. d4 cxd4   4. Nxd4 Nf6   5. Nc3 d6   6. Bg5 e6   7. Qd2 a6   8. O-O-O Bd7   9. f4

I think we now want to check on the following moves: 8 ... Bd7, 9,,, Be7, and 10 ... Qc7 so to observe c7 d7 e7 I think we should move to d6.

Propose move to d6 per above discussion.

  1. After moving to e4 you saw a pawn coming to f4.

@traders

White move 9 as predicted is nice that increases confidence the line is going as predicted

1 e4 (likely but could be move 2) ... 1 c5
2 Nf3 (likely but could be move 1) ... 2 Nf6
3. d4 ... 3 cxd4
4 Nxd4 ... 4 Nf6
5 Nc3 likely to protect e4 but little info on this ... 5 d6
6 Bg5 is played, more likely move 6 than 7. ... 6 e6
7 Qd2 is common continuation but no direct obs ... 7 a6 is common continuation but no direct obs
8 O-O-O is common continuation but no direct obs ... 8 Bd7 is common continuation but no direct obs
9 f4 (correctly predicted) ,,, 9 b5 is common continuation but but no direct obs
10 Bxf6 is common continuation but no idea...10 gxf6 is common continuation but no idea
 
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=32677&move=11&moves=e4.c5.Nf3.Nc6.d4.cxd4.Nxd4.Nf6.Nc3.d6.Bg5.e6.Qd2.a6.O-O-O.Bd7.f4.b5.Bxf6.gxf6&nodes=21720.32033.32034.32035.32036.32037.32038.32039.32040.32041.32042.1483127.1624683.1624684.1624685.1624686.1624687.1624872.1624912.32677

Suggestions for search are: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 d6 6 Bg5 e6
or 1. e4 c5   2. Nf3 Nc6   3. d4 cxd4   4. Nxd4 Nf6   5. Nc3 d6   6. Bg5 e6   7. Qd2 a6   8. O-O-O Bd7   9. f4

The plan was to move towards second rank which we could continue to do and move to d3 would seem most sensible for this plan.

However we may also feel that observing the f4 move is a good evidence that the line is proceeding along the common continuation path predicted so there is less need to confirm the past and we should try to keep up with latest projected moves of 10 Bxf6 gxf6. for this we could move back to f5 or to e5

The common continuation for move 11 is Kb1 Qb6 so I am thinking e5 may be more sensible than f5.

Any different thoughts or alternate suggestions for what to investigate or where to move are welcome.

Based on above, propose move to e5

  1. Witness moved from e6 to f5, and no movement was noticed during the eighth move.

@traders

1 e4 (likely but could be move 2) ... 1 c5
2 Nf3 (likely but could be move 1) ... 2 Nf6
3. d4 ... 3 cxd4
4 Nxd4 ... 4 Nf6
5 Nc3 likely to protect e4 but little info on this ... 5 d6
6 Bg5 is played more likely move 6 than 7. ... 6 e6
7 Qd2 is common continuation but no idea ... 7 a6 is common continuation but no idea
8 O-O-O is common continuation but no idea ... 8 Bd7 is common continuation but no idea
9 f4 is common continuation but no idea ,,, 9 b5 is common continuation but no idea

Unknown moves growing as moves are no longer centrally located but as least confirmed Bg5 was played.

Suggestion for search is now: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 d6 6 Bg5 e6

The above suggests we might want to see f4 so move to e4 continuing previous plan of heading towards c/d/e2 seems reasonable.

Any different thoughts or alternate suggestions for what to investigate or where to move are welcome.

propose move to e4

Why not F6? Seems more likely to be a death.

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=1624686&move=9&moves=e4.c5.Nf3.Nc6.d4.cxd4.Nxd4.Nf6.Nc3.d6.Bg5.e6.Qd2.a6.O-O-O.Bd7&nodes=21720.32033.32034.32035.32036.32037.32038.32039.32040.32041.32042.1483127.1624683.1624684.1624685.1624686
show 4 games playing Bxf6 on move 9 compared to 2613 playing f4 so it seems pretty unlikely on move 9.

However, if the aim is death then moving to f6 and staying there (Bxf6 is played 875 times on move 10 in the line below): may be a reasonable strategy.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=1624872&move=10&moves=e4.c5.Nf3.Nc6.d4.cxd4.Nxd4.Nf6.Nc3.d6.Bg5.e6.Qd2.a6.O-O-O.Bd7.f4.b5&nodes=21720.32033.32034.32035.32036.32037.32038.32039.32040.32041.32042.1483127.1624683.1624684.1624685.1624686.1624687.1624872

We could easily be on a different lines, as I am guessing most frequent continuation several times.

My proposal is more aimed at information gathering rather than death. This seems more playing the game rather than mana maximising.

So if observers wish to play to gather information, I suggest like my move to e4,
but if people want to bet on death and try to get that as quickly as possible then moving to f6 and staying there may be a more sensible strategy.

2-1 for e4 over f6?

  1. Witness entered e6 and nothing happened during 7th move.

@traders

So little new to add
1 e4 (likely but could be move 2) ... 1 c5
2 Nf3 (likely but could be move 1) ... 2 Nf6
3. d4 ... 3 cxd4
4 Nxd4 ... 4 Nf6
5 Nc3 likely to protect e4 but little info on this ... 5 d6
6 Bg5 seems common and fits with an e6 response but no idea. ... 6 e6
7 Qd2 is common continuation but no idea ... 7 a6 is common continuation but no idea
8 O-O-O is common continuation but no idea ... 8 Bd7 is common continuation but no idea

Unknown moves growing as moves are no longer centrally located.

Alternate suggestions for what to investigate welcome.

Suggestion for search is still: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 d6

The above suggests we might want to see g5 (re white move 6 or 7 or 8) and e7 (re possible black move 8) squares next move which would suggest moving to f6 in order to see both. Seems worth doing this and then we probably want to start to head towards c2/d2/e2 to check on white Q and whether white castled queen side. If castled and then the rook moves before we get to see it that could leave us very unsure what is going on so we might want to instead prefer to move to f5 giving up on continuing to look at e7 square to reduce time to get to second rank.

Any different thoughts?

So propose move to f5

Remember, Witness cannot see kings, so a moved Rook does not guarantee castling.

3 days one proposal (f5) only liked by Kongo. Is that enough or do we have to generate more proposals or likes?

@ChristopherRandles My like does not count.

But I assume you like your own proposal, so, as it is the only one, it isautomatically the one with most likes. New move in 10 minutes.

bought Ṁ100 Death YES

I am betting death based solely on the fact that somehow the observer is on d5 five moves in. This is insanity.

reposted

This is a cool game. Come play.

Perhaps to discourage players from betting on death there should have been 6 options:

White wins without crazy war reporter death
Draw without crazy war reporter death
Black wins without crazy war reporter death
Crazy war reporter death before White wins
Crazy war reporter death before Draw

Crazy war reporter death before Black wins

yeah that’d force death-betters to be more invested in info gathering.

In the mid-late game, once the outcome of the game is more clear, it’d still devolve into a tug of war between those trying to keep the source alive and those trying to reenact Nightcrawler.